[Daniel Preissler]

sökö dundungbè???
maybe söködundun-gbè, this would be the first, or normal or usual version of one style to play sökö.
what is it like, can you explain that? and where s it from (CKY doesn't count d;-) )?
never heard this name. and in fact I didn't hear Sökö very often - I think it's one of the rhythms getting more and more lost (at least in he "original" context), because the whole circoncition thing becomes more and more shortened.

see you and sorry again for the missunderstanding concerning sökö - that's an important point, so there we ought to be clear!

Daniel

[bubudi]

What I said originally, was that I don't believe in the dundunba rhythm tako4, that they took danba as a dundunba rhythm (with the double strokes all the time, which is a variation to me or an echauffement) for the disc of Mamady's, because it has the same kensedeni. But I think there is no such dundunba.

are you're saying that in your opinion takonani is a variation of damba and doesn't actually exist as a separate dunun rhythm? all the dunun rhythms are variations on each other. they all evolved from dunungbe. there are some that are much more similar to each other than damba and takonani. you may like to consult your friend sean. on his website he lists takonani as one of the rhythms played during a denabo/bundiani fete, which confirms my info. maybe he can tell you where he heard this rhythm. please keep me posted if you find out anything.

no, i was refering to denba as the rhythm known as maraka by most of the maninka and bamana people.

OK! But this is a different music, that's why I didn't get. In my postings I refer to the style with 3 dunduns - if you take the Mali stuff in, it's much more complicated (for Bamako is a mixture of lots of styles, so very hard to say what is what compared to the upper Guinean "rhytm families".

i mentioned denba (maraka) as one of the 3 root rhythms (families) that some masters talk about. i see a lot of overlap in these styles. for instance, djabara and tiriba bear a lot of resemblance to denba. i would say n'gri (wassolonka) also, although ngri is harder to pinpoint to a root rhythm. interestingly, tiriba comes from the landuma people, who are not mande (neither are the baga).

I wanted to say: you put Dundunba in the same family as Sökö and Dya - for they are in the same family! So there is not more similarity betwenn them than I thought, they are quite near.

ah ok. one thing that comes immediately to mind is that the dununba part for soko and many of the dunun rhythms are the same, only displaced. i also addressed the question of varying bells in the dunun rhythms in my earlier post, including the same bell pattern as for soko.

sökö dundungbè???
maybe söködundun-gbè, this would be the first, or normal or usual version of one style to play sökö.
what is it like, can you explain that? and where s it from (CKY doesn't count d;-) )?

it's a dunun rhythm danced by men during some circumcision festivals. mainly, soko and soko dunungbe are played at the kelalasi festival, when the boys' family members go to neighbouring villages (especially those in which they have relatives) to announce the coming soli festival. it's a hamana rhythm, but i'm afraid i can't remember what towns/villages play it.

[Daniel Preissler]

are you're saying that in your opinion takonani is a variation of damba and doesn't actually exist as a separate dunun rhythm? all the dunun rhythms are variations on each other. they all evolved from dunungbe. there are some that are much more similar to each other than damba and takonani. you may like to consult your friend sean. on his website he lists takonani as one of the rhythms played during a denabo/bundiani fete, which confirms my info. maybe he can tell you where he heard this rhythm. please keep me posted if you find out anything.

Bubudi, you have to understand that not all the hamana rhythms are dundunbas (danba isn't!). Somepeople use the suffix -dundun for some rhythms (like hamana dundun or konkoba dundun), but not all these rhythms are dundunbas.
And they do NOT all evolved from dundungbè. It's the dundunba rhythms ("dance of the strong men" to be clear) that probably all evolve from dundungbè.
And, sorry, the fact that Sean mentions "takonani" doesn't proof that there is a dundunba (!) of that name, so it doesn't confirm your info. It just confirms that there is a rhythm like that (Soli turned around, in fact) that is played for some fête who is NO dundunba (it was no dundunba fête, but denabö, no?) - and he just doesn't know the other (Sangbarala or hamana) name - just as me.
On Sean's homepage Sofa was mentioned as a fête on his own, too - of course it's not, it's just a little part of a fête, a mini-fête for the elder men added to a bigger one. But in these lists you have to take one title or two, so you can never be really exact. In Sangbarala they sometimes play kawa and soliwulen directly after denabö, sometimes Fakoly is played after dundunba, or after kawa or after gbundiani - it's all the stuff that can appear for big fêtes as tabaski or dalamon.

I told you before I heard the rhythm (danba, "takonani", if you want) several times myself - but it is not played as a dundunba, same info from me as from Sean!

Not every rhythm with the offbeat kensedeni is a dunduba, you know?!
what you did in your lists above is to take all the discs you got and to copy the names of every rhythm with this kensedeni (and even some more ) - that's not serious!
In that way you find gberedu and gbereduka and maybe even beredou and than you say you know 3 more dundunbas d;-)

And again: they choosed the name of takonani - why? are there 4 steps to do?? No it's just because there was tako3 before and they were looking for a name (for not all rhythms have clear names everywhere), and as there where 4 strokes.....

I hope I made some things clear (not everything, of course d;-) )
questions never come to an end

Daniel

[e2c]

Could someone please post the URL of Sean's website?

[michel weelen]

Mandiani or Mendiani is DEFENETLY not a "Dudumba" rythm ...
Mandiani is a traditional rythm played for little girls "the mendianies" (not sure off the speling), when they pass the age of 10 ....
Dundumba is a men rythm traditionaly played for big ceremonies in the Hamana district where it is originated from ... in the old days it was played on "very special occasions" like mainly on "generation changes", nox it's palyed for every occasion like the Baro festival "Fête de la mare" ...
Dudumbas where forbidden in the 20's because off it's violence ...
How many Dudumbas ... well how many villages are there in the Hamana & the districts around ...
the funniest thing is that every village claim to have the original one ... so counting them is useless !!!

[Daniel Preissler]

Sean and Norma's homepage: www.djembemoves.de

Michel, Dundunba is a fête, not a rhythm (and you can call the rythms played for this fête the dundunba rhythms). If you go to Hamana (or Gberedu, or Kankan) once, you will see that in every village, there are at least 8 or 10 rhythms that are played. between about 3-8 per fête. It's true that these 10 rhythms aren't the same in every village and that there are local differences from region to region and from village to village.

D

[e2c]

Thanks, Daniel!

[michel weelen]

Thank's dude .... I know that Dudumba is what you call "une fête" ...i'm french so i know that ....
And i've benn in Hamana ... in 1985 !!!!

Here are two picts from my personnal collection taken in the early 20's i gues in the french AOF ... even before it was named Guinée ... or ...or

numérisation0005.jpg (744.2KiB)Viewed 5897 times

[michel weelen]

and here is the second one ....

[michi]

Fantastic images, thanks for that!

Cheers,

Michi.

[Daniel Preissler]

Hi Michel, salut Michel,
nice to find someone here who has been there in the 80s. Still you wrote

Dundumba is a men rythm traditionaly played for big ceremonies in the Hamana district where it is originated from ... in the old days it was played on "very special occasions" like mainly on "generation changes", nox it's palyed for every occasion like the Baro festival "Fête de la mare" ...
Dudumbas where forbidden in the 20's because off it's violence ...
How many Dudumbas ... well how many villages are there in the Hamana & the districts around ...
the funniest thing is that every village claim to have the original one ... so counting them is useless !!! (...)

So you were talking twice about dundunba as a (=one) rhythm, that's why I wrote my correction.
And (as I said) there is not only one rhythm, even in one village, so your image of "counting the villages is not correct, that's important!
By the way (maybe you know that, but it wasn't clear in your posting) Mendiani (Den) is not played for all the girls who reach the age of ten, there are only a few, sometimes only one or two in a village, who dance this dance, and they normally will start before the age of ten.
Interesting that you say, the fête de la mare (dalamo) is no "very special occasion".
A la prochaine
Daniel

[bubudi]

hi daniel,

it's easy to misinterpret our words in this text medium.

Bubudi, you have to understand that not all the hamana rhythms are dundunbas

of course not! i can name quite a few hamana rhythms that aren't dunun rhythms.

(danba isn't!).

i personally asked famoudou about this via thomas goldhahn a few years back. my reason was that he was not using the basatinbaraba call on this piece on his cd. famoudou's response was that damba is definitely a dunun (dununba) rhythm.

Somepeople use the suffix -dundun for some rhythms (like hamana dundun or konkoba dundun), but not all these rhythms are dundunbas.

yes, i am aware of this. denabendunun is another. it can be tricky when you start talking about konkoba dunun and konden. both are played like a dunun (dununba) rhythm in baro. according to some teachers, they are dunun rhythms. ask famoudou, he will tell you without hesitation that both are definitely not dunun rhythms.

And they do NOT all evolved from dundungbè.

again, i was only refering to the dununba rhythms.

And, sorry, the fact that Sean mentions "takonani" doesn't proof that there is a dundunba (!)

i was not trying to use it as proof that it is a dununba rhythm. rather, i thought that you were saying that takonani is not a rhythm that exists in hamana, that it is just a variation on damba. so i was asking you to consult with sean since he mentions it on his site, under the same fete that i mentioned.

it was no dundunba fête, but denabö, no?

correct. but some dunun rhythms are played outside the dununba fete. did you attend any soli fetes in hamana or gberedu?

Not every rhythm with the offbeat kensedeni is a dunduba, you know?!

i will take your word for it! i will even give konkoba dunun as an example.

what you did in your lists above is to take all the discs you got and to copy the names of every rhythm with this kensedeni (and even some more ) - that's not serious!
In that way you find gberedu and gbereduka and maybe even beredou and than you say you know 3 more dundunbas d;-)

very funny! i assure you i don't do that. i am still not convinced that damba=tako4, though, even though i see a similarity. as i said before, there are other dunun rhythms that bear more resemblance to each other and yet are separate dunun rhythms.

And again: they choosed the name of takonani - why? are there 4 steps to do?? No it's just because there was tako3 before and they were looking for a name (for not all rhythms have clear names everywhere), and as there where 4 strokes.....

yes, that certainly seems a plausible reason for the name, and i can see where you're going with this. again, why not ask sean? maybe he was told this name by someone from the source? or better yet, are you able to correspond by email with any of your teachers?

[Dugafola]

sökö dundungbè???
maybe söködundun-gbè, this would be the first, or normal or usual version of one style to play sökö.
what is it like, can you explain that? and where s it from (CKY doesn't count d;-) )?
never heard this name. and in fact I didn't hear Sökö very often - I think it's one of the rhythms getting more and more lost (at least in he "original" context), because the whole circoncition thing becomes more and more shortened.

see you and sorry again for the missunderstanding concerning sökö - that's an important point, so there we ought to be clear!

Daniel

i witnessed a soli fete for the bilakoro in the village of Mandoukoro which is near Faranah in Sankaran...koumanko territory. there was no soko or kala played at all. those rhythms are definitely 'getting lost' as you say.

[Dugafola]

re: damba....
i can definitely hear the similarity between FK's damba and takonani. what about Koumbagna's damba on percussion du sankaran. i can't remember how it goes exactly right now.

i learned another version of damba from Bolokada that sounds exactly like Nantolomba.

[Dugafola]

Not every rhythm with the offbeat kensedeni is a dunduba, you know?!

i will take your word for it! i will even give konkoba dunun as an example.

even parts of bundiani have dununba kenkeni...